To tell you the truth, when that crazy creature named Bruno told me that we might have the chance to interview Clive Jones, the first thing I thought was: impossible! This should be a joke! The millenium's hoax! But I was wrong, and when I realized that it was the truth, I felt happy like a baby! Clive has been the flute player in the mythical British band Black Widow, authors of the dark-prog master piece "Sacrifice". While Black Sabbath preferred a much more aggressive and violent sound, Black Widow could count on their ethereal and evocative atmosphere, pure black magic! Besides, Clive has been the founder and leader of another great band every shock rock supporter should know: Agony Bag. A high transgression lover band with a very original sound, a kind of punk-glam with theatrical hints, the pioneers of the nowadays shock rock bands. Agony Bag's shows were unique experiences which reminded the musical "Rocky Horror Picture Show", based on gloomy make up, sex and blood. Clive Jones can be surely considered a rock living legend, but despite this, he's been kind and precise in answering each one of our questions. And this lead me to think to all those egocentric and unkind rockstars who think to be the ones and only… With this milestone interview we're pleased to greet you and wish to all of you happy holydays, full of old, great, and funny rock'n'roll!

Thanks to Phil from Agony Bag Official Website to give us the permission to use some Clive Jones photos taken off his great site!

Hi Clive, welcome on The Rock Explosion. We're honoured to have you on our pages. Let's start talking about your past career. What could you tell us about the time your band was called Pesky Gee! and what do you remember of that period? How would you describe the British underground scene of those years?
Pesky Gee! started out as a soul band in about 1966. We regularly played a Leicester club called "The Nite Owl" every Saturday with top soul acts from all over the Country. I remember we once played there with Mary Wells, the Temptations, and even the Syn later to be part of the rock band YES. It was great fun we all got on so well, it was a time when so many bands were travelling up and down the motorways and a time when only people in bands had long hair so it was very easy to spot a musician. Pesky Gee! were discovered in the town of Warrington by a songwriter called Malcolm Rabbit who had written a song for a group called the Curiosity Shoppe, that had just been released. He came to our gig and loved the band, so the next day he turned up with the song "A Place Of Heartbreak". Malcolm also had a London manager, Patrick Meehan, whom he introduced us to. Meehan signed the band up and put us in the recording studio: we recorded a whole album in 4 hours! They took the Vanilla Fudge song "Where Is My Mind" to be our first single, much to Malcolm Rabbits disappointment "Heartbreak" was to be the B side. A funny story is that when our label PYE were to issue the album, the manager called to tell them not to miss the exclamation mark at the end of our name, but they completely got it wrong, missed it off and called the album Exclamation Mark! When the CD was re issued by Sanctuary Records they promised me they would put the "!" back on the name. I'm pleased to say they kept their word.

After Kay Garret quit, Pesky Gee! became Black Widow. Where's Kay now? I found her voice really amazing! Do you know anything about her life and career nowadays?
Not correct Kay left the band when we were Black Widow. She recorded the "Return To The Sabbath" album that was originally a demo album for "Sacrifice". She was a wonderful singer and we had great fun together. Then Kay met a drummer, Terry Abbs and got married, but I know she wants to sing again and I would love to work with her.
Kip I'm now in touch with again after 35 years. He does not really sing professionally anymore but has his own publishing company. I might be working again with Kip on the "Metal Heart" musical project. Kip has lived in London for many years he has been married twice and I think has a son and daughter.

"Sacrifice" is a milestone of hard rock and dark music. But why, according your opinion, despite your great potential and the good selling of the above mentioned album, Black Widow never really burst?
"Sacrifice" was a good album but Black Widow had such bad luck! It was released on the same label (CBS) and the same day as Simon and Garfunkel's "Bridge Over Troubled Water" album which was such a big seller that they never pressed anything else for weeks so no-one could get hold of our album. People went into the record stores and asked for the black magic album and were sold Black Sabbath, every one always got us mixed up. Later our management took on Black Sabbath and that made it even more confusing! Also we were going to play the States when Charles Manson did his black magic murders and this stopped us from touring there, while the USA release of "Sacrifice" was withdrawn. So Black Sabbath went to the States and Black Widow were doomed.

How would you talk about Jim Gannon and Kip Trevor? (guitar player and singer of the band). I often read about them described as very egocentric and irascible persons. Isn't it?
What can I say they thought they were god's gift, they treated some of the guys in the band, me included, like shit. They brought drugs into the band, got rid of anyone who disagreed with them and were totally unprofessional and ruined the band. Kip did apologise to me a few years ago, but I believe if we had all worked together in Black Widow we could really have done something great in the music bizz!

After "Sacrifice" you decided to leave the occult behind and to deal with more "earthly" matters. Was it a team decision? And above all, why did you choose to change the topic?
Well here we go again: it was Kip and Jim who wanted to change and leave the black magic thing behind, Clive Box and myself wanted to keep the black magic thing going. But Jim thought it was stopping him from being recognised from being a great guitarist. A bad move. We were forced to drop the black magic, and the following Black Widow albums never reached the heights of "Sacrifice".

Some years ago has been released a collection of previously unreleased tracks belonging to 1972-1973 period, titled "Black Widow IV". In more than one song appears such Rick E. at vocals. Who is this artist?
When Kip quit, to work on a project with Jim (we later found out it was a new Black Widow act doing the black magic show for the USA) we held auditions for a new singer. The guy who joined was from the States, Rick E, real name Rick Prince. He used to be in a group in the States called Plum Nellie. Rick was only with the band for about 6 months before we split for good but he was a great singer. I recently found him on the internet. When he left us, he joined Twisted Sister before Dee Snider. He sent me a CD of stuff he had recorded and it was great rock! I guess we didn't make the most of him when he was with us. Strange but I may be doing some work with Rick on my "Metal Heart" project. The "Black Widow IV" album was really of demo of tracks we hoped to release but it spent 35 years in my bedroom along with the "Return" album. A friend and fan of Black Widow went crazy when he knew I had the only copies of these albums. He owned Mystic records, so that's how they got released.

What did you do in the five years since 1974 till 1979? Did you work always in music field?
Well I'm trying to think… I had 2 years off always meaning to join another band but not really trying too hard. About 1977 I teamed up again with Clive Box the original drummer of Black Widow and we formed Agony Bag.

Can you tell us a some more about the genesis of Agony Bag?
Yes, like I said, I formed Agony Bag with Clive Box. I had just played sax/flute in Black Widow but I really wanted to be the lead singer. I was always good as a front man so this was my chance. Then I saw Bruce playing when I went for an audition and knew he was right for Agony Bag Clive and myself wanted Agony Bag to be a really wild live show, after Black Widow it had to be something great.

Who were Bruce Clulely (guitar) and Geoff Beavan (bass)? Did they have any former experiences in other bands before their adventure with Agony Bag?
Yes they were with other bands but nothing special. Bruce now plays with DPM, Geoff plays for Deisel Park West who have had a few UK chart hits. Unfortunately Geoff has throat cancer, but he is still looking good at the moment, after many operations he is also helping me on the "Metal Heart" project.

What does Agony Bag mean and why did you choose such a weird monicker?
Clive Box and myself choose the name. In the UK there was an advert with this bag of sugar being punched in the stomach. It sort of came from that.

Your look was extremely outrageous. So I suppose you may have had some problems with authorities and censorship…
Not really. We did do a live radio show once and were asked to cover up as it was in front of a live audience, but no chance of that. Agony Bag did what we did and would not change for anyone. I'm sure we were the first and only band to have sex on stage, but strangely, no-one ever tried to stop us doing that, and it was not always with girls! We used to advertise the shows by walking through the streets in our costumes. This was great fun!

Let's describe to all our Exploders your shows. I know you were very fond of transgression. What can you tell us of your best live performances, of the life on the road…won't you tell us some anecdotes?
Well I've answered part of this in previous question. We did some wonderful shows. Agony Bag did many strange things on stage. I always seemed to come off covered in blood, usually because I had been sliding across the floor with bare knees but after a while I had the hardest knees in the bizz (laughs). If the readers don't know we had girls, the Bagettes, in the band who were topless at the end of the show (Sue & Maggie). It was always difficult to have sex with Sue and suck cock at the same, time but I always seemed to manage it.

"Feelmazumba", released in 2001, by Black Widow Records, is simply a demos collection or can be considered as an "unreleased album"? What does the title "Feelmazumba" mean?
"Feelmazumba" is one of our songs written by myself, but I can't tell you what it means. Only the 4 members of Agony Bag know, it's special to us, and even though we are not together now, we will not tell.

Can you tell us instead something about the lyrics of "Rabies Is A Killer" (covered by Death SS), of "Nursery Crimes" and in general of all the other songs of "Feelmazumba". What are they about? What's their main theme?
"Rabies Is A Killer" has also been covered by another band from Italy, Taxi. They will also be covering another one of my songs on their next CD. "Rabies" came about when we used to travel to Germany and there were always posters on the ferry saying "Rabies is a killer = beware". I always tried to pick different subjects to other bands to write about. "Nursery Crimes" is a play on nursery rhymes. I just changed the lyrics to make them nasty. "White Stick" is of course about a blind man. "I Can" is about things you can't do, and "Golden Shower Passer" is about the sexual practice of pissing on each other. All good family fun stuff.

Who are the musicians who have mostly influenced you? Which was the main inspiration source which brought you to develop such an original and inimitable style, as the one of Agony Bag?
Musicians who influenced me are properly not the type you would expect. I always loved Motown and Junior Walker is my favourite sax player. The music of Burt Bacharach and the words of Hal David are wonderful. Singers like Dionne Warwick or Dusty Springfield, really know how to interpret a song. Bands I guess King Crimson, Vanilla Fudge, Arthur Brown, Free… I was inspired by many artists for different reasons. My hero is producer Phil Spector in many cases a million miles away from heavy or progressive music.

Do you think in 1980 the audience was ready to understand and appreciate your provoking attitudes and sound? Can you explain us anyway the reasons of your answer?
Well I guess not otherwise we would have been more successful at the time. I've been in a few bands that were ahead of there time Black Widow and Agony Bag certainly were. That's why many acts cover my songs now. Nachfalke from Germany have just covered "Your So Wrong", a Black Widow song, 35 years after I wrote it. It's great to hear new bands cover these songs but most stick to the original versions. I sometimes wish they would try to update the songs!

I think in those past years music was free and much more creative. At least if compared to nowadays, a period in which music is slave of trends and business (well this is just my impression). But in your opinion, what has changed in music biz since the times you started your career?
O dear this is hard to answer! To be honest I agree with you, there are very few artists I really like now, bands don't seem to tour like they used to, they just go straight into the studio with any understanding of what they are singing or playing about. Pop music has been destroyed by the terrible people that run the music bizz now. Very few artists can entertain or have an original sound and no original ideas. I thought the music business would get better and musicians get better but this has not happened. I have to listen to big names that can't play in tune having huge hit songs that have tunes I can't remember after I have heard them. Very boring.

Is there some chance to see Agony Bag on stage again, maybe performing in Italy?
Well I hope so. I'm just finishing of a new Agony Bag CD with some old and new songs on it. None of the original members will be on it except myself, but I'm really pleased with it. I have used German musicians, some that used to follow the original band when we toured Germany. A few songs were written by myself and my dog Ming. One in particular "Evil Clock" written on 9/11. Sadly Ming passed away last year. (I can't think of anybody else that writes with an animal believe me try it, you can pick up a vibe from them) and no he didn't write "Rabies Is A Killer"(laughs). There's maybe a chance I could also bring back to life Black Widow?

If I'm not wrong Pesky Gee! were very close friends of another band devoted to occultism, the Demon Fuzz. What can you tell us about this latter spooky group?
No you're wrong, I do know of Demon Fuzz but we have never met or played with them.

Ooops! What kind of impression makes on you being quoted as main source of inspiration for many bands of today? At the beginning of your career could you ever imagine to become a reference point for many young beginners? Is there any band of the recent scene you like in particular? And instead is there some other band you cannot stand for some reasons?
It's great to be an inspiration for bands and artists today. I also coach any artists that I think will be good if they listen. Well I like your own band from Italy Death SS. I will be playing on their next album. Steve Sylvester does some great work I hope to appear with him one day just turn up and surprised him on stage! Bands I cant stand there would be too many to mention, and it would not be fair for me to say. But…no, I can't (laughs).

Which are the albums you'll bring with you on a desert island?
This is hard! Also there would be so many… Dionne Warwick live, so I can sing along and keep my voice in good shape; Phil Spector hits album, because I love all those old songs with great productions; Black Sabbath, for when I need a dose of heavy music. Then 70's disco hits for when I want to dance round my palm tree, 98 degrees for when I feel like some pure pop harmony. And my dad made a record way back in the 50's "Song Of The Rose" guess I had better take that? It's a bit scratched now. Oh and I love Christmas, even though dad died on Christmas day, we have lots of Christmas releases in the UK an album with all of those on would be good!

What could you tell us about your up-coming projects? When should we expect the following of "Feelmazumba"?
Well I've mentioned the follow up to "Feelmazumba", I hope to do a new Black Widow album with some of the original members guesting. At the moment I'm writing a musical with a team in London, a sort of new "Rocky Horror Picture Show". The songs are nearly finished and I've been in the studio recording my songs for it. These will all be new songs. The working title will be "Metal Heart" but this may change. Steve Sylvester may be singing the title song. I will be playing a character I sometimes use in the UK "Dr Pesky" (I have my own release under that name in Canada later this year). I can't tell you the story but there is a good chance the band featured will be Black Widow… Guess I have a lot on at the moment, but it's still great to be doing so much music after all these years!

Which are your hobbies outside music fields?
I don't really have too much time for hobbies. I can spend days in old record shops looking for stuff. I love to write songs of course and I've always wanted to appear in a porno movie while everything still works! Any offers?

Thanks so much Clive, being with you has been a great pleasure! The interview is over and now you may greet Italian fans and our Exploders as you like!
Well thanks for letting me do this interview, my answers have maybe been crazy but honest. If anyone wants to contact me I will always try to reply personally you can reach me at smackmanagement@aol.com or if anyone saw Black Widow when we did a tour of Italy back in 1972 with YES or has any pictures from then that would be cool. I wish you all a happy life and I hope to see you one day in Italy. Love to you all!

Intervista realizzata da Andrea Zazzarini
Traduzione e supervisione di Margherita Realmonte